Post by Butch Bridges on Jan 4, 2009 16:32:24 GMT -6
What others have said......
01/02/09 "Wild Woman cave is east of Nebo about 3 miles. Wagon Wheel Cave is south of the pool below turner falls about 1/4 mile and a climb up about 75 ft. It is a large opening about 7ft in almost a perfect circle, thus the name wagon wheel. Bitter Enders is a cave I don't know anything about, but.... the cave where all the water comes down Honey creek and over the falls is the one I spent a lot of time in. One of the descriptions a fella wrote about going down into mud and sliding down and down until you hit the water. It was ice cold and we had to use old small inner tubes that we blew up by mouth to float down to the room where the water went under the ledge and outside. You could see the outside light coming from under the water. It may be called Bitter Enders but I never knew the name of it. It is about 3 to 4 miles due West of the falls and the water comes out from under a large ledge. Opening is couple of hundred feed west of that. Straight down for at least 60 ft, then the steep mud slope into the water. The mud slope is about 50 to 60 ft long at about a 30 to 40 degree angle. Went back into that cave in late 60's after they built the freeway and a rock the size of a small house had come down from the roof. Probably due to all the dynamiting for the highway. Swore I'd never go into it again. Killed a trophy sized coon tail rattler with a rock and took him back and park service came to the house and skinned him and he was on display in the nature center for several years. It was lying at the entrance to the cave "Bitter Enders" and I almost got nailed by him." -Larry Ogwin
11/13/08 "While in college around 1969, three friends and I entered the Wild Woman Cave. I will only say it is in the Arbuckle Mountains because it is a fragile environment. As a child, I lived in El Paso (1954) with my Dad and we visited Carlsbad Caverns in New Mexico. The Wild Woman Cave (WWC) is not anywhere near as spectacular as Carlsbad, but it was an adventure one spring day for four guys from Ardmore. One of my three friends was a geology student at OU and he had the USGS map showing us where the WWC was.
As a dot on a small map, it was very difficult to find. We hiked several miles across the rocks of the Arbuckle terrain, which even as a young man was exhausting. We drank all our water on the way into the site and on the way out and at the end of a long day, we drank creek water. The first member of our team found a deep hole where we thought the cave entrance was and he entered it. It was straight down and could have been very dangerous had he entered the cavern from the top of a chamber. I watch as he went down a vertical shaft. At the moment he was almost out of sight, a second member found another entrance. It had a semi-secured entry placed there by the Ardmore Spelunkers Club (ASC). One of my teachers in Ardmore had mentioned his membership and adventures in the cave.
Removing some rocks, we entered an 18 inch hole passing first spiders, then past sleeping bats a few inches from our faces. We climbed down a wooden ladder placed there by the ASC. The tight hole delivered us into a larger main shaft covered by mud, running water, dampness, low temperatures and an occasional flying bat. Of the four of us with four flashlights, two flashlights went out immediately. I assume because of the dampness. The four of us descended a quarter mile on a slow decline, which included several tight spaces under rocks and through water. The lead friend had one of the flashlights and the rear friend had the other. Only very thin, agile and in excellent shape people should enter an unexplored cave. It was almost impossible to move because of the fragile stalactites and stalagmites. We took every precaution not to damage them. After encountering a partly flooded passage, we retreated to move up the cavern toward the entry and the first three friends actually missed our entry point. The last friend with one flashlight noticed the pile of rocks we had left in the middle of the shaft to show us the way out. Had he missed it I think we would still be in that cave. As we exited the cave we were covered with mud, sweat and cold cave water, so the warm spring sunlight felt very good.
I always wanted to take my boys to the Wild Woman Cave, but at my age I'm not sure I could make it. It is not a Carlsbad Cavern or an Oregon Cave which I visited in 1972 that could be commercialized. It is there for all time but not for all people. There is a good reason it is not commercialized. I hope one of the rock excavators doesn't destroy it like so much of the Arbuckle Mountains or Arbuckle Quarry Holes as it will someday be called." -Dan Mahoney
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11/20/08 "Butch, When someone brought up the subject about Wild Woman Cave near Turner Falls, it brought back fond memories of one of my good friends of many, many years ago when I was still living in Ardmore. We attended church together and he was a fellow principal at Lincoln Elementary School. He was V. S. Watson, a spelunker as a hobby, with two other men on the team, whose names I can't recall at the time. V.S. passed away many years ago but I'm sure some of your readers will remember him. They traveled all around the country exploring, charting and taking pictures of caves during the summer time. He spoke a good bit about Wild Woman Cave and they were deep within that cave more than once. He described it pretty much like one of your readers as muddy in areas and having to go through water at times to get to other parts. I also remember him saying that some of the passage ways were rather small to crawl through but once you got to the other side there would be large, beautiful rooms. Even at that time he didn't believe it would ever be very commercial because of the difficulty getting through from room to room. He said man could probably improve to approach and entrance but the big problem was inside. His impression was: that it was as attractive as some of the popular caves once inside but just not suited for passage to the public. I have no idea what may have happened to their charts and pictures since V. S. and his wife, Erma, had no children. Some of your readers may recall and know who the other men on the team were. Just a bit of information to add to what has already been said." -Edgar Wallace
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10/30/08 "If you walked the 2 or 3 miles up to the source of Honey Creek, you were at "Wild Woman Cave" entrance (or exit). There is at least one other entrance up above the spot where the spring comes out of the rocks. There are at least 2 more caves on Honey Creek and 2 more located to the south of the falls. "Outlaw Cave" is just above the falls on the north side of the creek, not much to it. "Sink Hole Cave" is located about 1/4 mile west above the falls, maybe 1/8 mile south of the creek in a ravine. It had a steel cable that ran several feet (at least 50-60 feet, maybe 100 feet or more?) down into the steep, nearly vertical entrance to the cave.
"Wagon Wheel Cave" is located about 1/3 mile south of the bath house at Turner Falls along the trail that leads up the canyon. It is located at least 100 feet up on the side of the steep, rocky hill on the east side of the creek bed and trail. It has one large room at the clearly visible entrance, a small, very narrow passage way back to a much smaller room and not much more.
"Crystal Cave" is located another 1/2 to 3/4 mile past Wagon Wheel and requires some easy rock climbing to reach. The entrance is well hidden in the trees and rocks, but can be easily found up along the same easterly side of the hill. It is at least 1/4 mile past the end of the trail leading up the canyon, but worth the hike.
There is at least one other cave located on the old Butterly Ranch, now part of Turner Falls Upper Campground that is worth mentioning. I think this one is called "Bitter Enders Cave" and may have another name that I don't recall. There was always some confusion and interchanging of the names of the caves around the park and surrounding area by some people (especially visitors from out of town), but these are the names most often used by all of the local old-timers in the area that lived their entire lives there. It has been many years since I explored it and the other caves at Turner Falls Park and the surrounding area, but at one time I had maps to locate and maps of the layout of each of these caves and all known names. Too bad I don't have those notes with GPS coordinates to share today. Good Luck, BE CAREFUL and happy spelunking!"
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10/30/08 "Back in the '60s growing up in Davis, I always heard that "Wild Woman Cave" was located on the Chapman ranch about two miles south of the towers up on top of the Mountains, and a few miles west of I-35. The only way to get on this paved road to this cave was off of Highway 77 going down the south side of the mountains. I heard that some people had gotten lost inside of this cave, and it had been boarded up to keep people out of it. Seems as though an OU geological team entered it before it was boarded up, and it was reported that Wild Woman Cave was probably larger in area than Carlsbad Caverns, but no one seemed to have the money to fix up this cave for public use. This story may or may not be true, but that is what I used to hear back then so long ago." -Scott Bumgarner, Sherman, TX
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03/17/08 "There are a number of caves in and around Turner Falls that we used to explore as well as one out west of Davis just to the southwest of Hennepin, Oklahoma that we called "Bitter Enters" as the temperature inside the cave was hotter than the outside and this was during the summer."
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07/19/07 "In your last newsletter someone asked where the water from Turner Falls originated. I think I can answer that. When I was in the Boy Scouts in Ardmore back in the fifties all the camping was done at Lake Murray. My friends and I always liked to camp in the Arbuckle Mountains. We did a lot of exploring there, especially in caves. One weekend we decided we wanted to find out where the water for the falls came from. We camped up above the falls and then followed the stream back from the falls. A few miles back from the falls (I don’t know how many, but it wasn’t a long hike) we came to a cave. The water was coming out of the cave. We were able to get into the cave and explore it. We went back into the cave as far as we could and finally got to a point where it was full of water. We returned several times and explored that cave and others close by. In dry seasons we could get further into the cave than we could in wet, rainy seasons. Someone had painted a name on the cave. It was called “Bitter Enders”. The guys who went with me most were Grady Nickolson, Marion Patton and Lawrence Stallcup. We had a lot of fun in those days exploring the mountains and caves." -Herb Linder hlinder007@att.net
www.oklahomahistory.net/ttphotos9a/BitterEndersCave.jpg
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07/19/07 "Butch, the headwaters for Turner falls originates in a cave SW of the falls a few miles. The water flows from an underground river out of the cave. I have been in this cave many times. The name of the cave is Bitter Enders. It is what we call a wet cave. Meaning it fills up when water table rises. Not a good place to take shelter from a rain storm." -Rome Ingle, Tulsa
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01/26/06 "Hey Cuz, When I was growing up in Davis it was said that there were two entrances to the Bitter Enders cave (as we knew it back then). The entrance that we were accustomed to using was the one just south of Hennipen. You turned left at the old Richard Morton home on the south side of U.S. 7 and drove for about a mile or so where you would get out and walk a 100 yards or so back to the East where you had to look closely to find the entrance to the cave. I remember that the cave was so hot that in the summer when you came out of the cave you could see your breath like when you would walk out of a warm place and into the cold. We could only get down about 50 feet or so because that was as far as our ropes would allow. We made several attempts to go deeper into the cave but never had enough rope and when we did, we would get to a point to where you had to be very small to squeeze into the hole to continue down." -Ralph in Korea
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05/12/05 "Hi Butch. What is the story with Bitter Enders Cave? Is it possible to still go into it? How do you get there. About ten years ago I believe some friends and I hiked up the creek from Turner falls park for about 3 miles where we came to the origin of the creek and right there was the cave. Went back a few weeks ago and could not find it."
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12/27/03 "Butch, about WAGON WHEEL CAVE at Turner Falls.... the one in the photo is known as CRYSTAL CAVE, located about 1/2 mile behind the current bathhouse. Wagon Wheel cave is the cave that is right next to the falls that is seen in all the photos. Outlaw cave is located on the same side, on top of the falls about 75 yards back. One of the most overlooked features in TURNER FALLS is the "Woman of the Rock" which can be seen from the castle looking up to the overlook. It is a profile of a woman's face. It used to be on the brochures listed as one of the attractions but later was dropped for some reason. Just thought I'd help clarify the Cave Names." -Bryan Pullen, Davis, Oklahoma, '32 year Turner Falls Veteran'
www.OklahomaHistory.net/ttphotos3b/CrystalCave.jpg
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12/27/03 "Will attempt to clear up misconception about the Wagon Wheel, Crystal Cave, and the cave to the immediate upper right of the Falls. Of course, I stand to be corrected re: the Wagon Wheel, but those who described it as about 200 yards up the canyon floor & high up the wall to the left, or northeast, and difficult to enter, is, as I too remember. A very shallow cave... Crystal cave is another couple of hundred yards east, and it too is on the left, or east side of the canyon but, only slightly elevated above the canyon floor with a large rock almost covering the entrance. Hope this clarifies to some degree, as I journeyed to these caves many times as a teenager. There is rumored to be another much larger cave several miles up the source of Honey creek. At one time is was called Bitter Enders cave. Don't know the source of the name."
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12/20/03 "Hi Butch. I have been in the cave you pictured as "Wagon Wheel Cave...Turner Falls" many times as a kid. in the late 30's. It was hard to get into. the cave from the trail below. as the wall below the cave was slick rock. We usually found a forked limb to act as a ladder and climb into the cave. I don't know if it went very far into the hill as the opening closed down very quickly We had no desire to explore and didn't try to crawl into the small opening at the back of the cave mouth." -Bill Uhles
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12/20/03 "Hello Butch and T&T. The Wagon Wheel Cave is indeed at Turner Falls. The canyon that goes south and a little east from the Falls is where the cave is located. As I remember, it is about 1/2 mile walking distance and it is on the east side of the canyon. It is very a very steep climb and you almost have to have a ladder to get in the cave. The cave is only about 50 to 60 feet deep. When I was going to High School in Davis in the early 50's my best friend and schoolmate, Thomas Hyden and I explored all of the area around Turner Falls, most of it back to the west of the Falls. Thanks." -Joe Black
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12/20/03 "In the mid 1940's, some friends and I visited the Wagon Wheel Cave. We went down to Turner Falls and followed a trail going south down the canyon. I remember it as being no more than 200 yards from the falls area. The cave is located to the left (east) and up high on a rock face cliff. It is an easy climb to the cliff but you need some help when you reach the cliff. Someone had placed a tree trunk from the top of the incline to the cave. We were able to climb up the trunk and enter the cave. It was just a round hole in the face of the cliff that you could stand upright in. It was not very deep or impressive in any other way." -Gene Reed
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12/13/03 "This is an email I received where I asked about Wagon Wheel Cave: "Dear Butch, I found an old 1958 report on Wagon Wheel Cave, it said that the cave is one and a half mile north of Brownville, Oklahoma and that the cave is filled with trash, including an old wagon wheel. The cave is about 100 feet long. If you go to the cave take a trash bag with you, it sounds like it could use a clean up." -Bill Torode, NSS library" www.caves.org/
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09/13/03 "The cave at honey creek is often referred to as Bitter Enders and is on Chapman ranch. Supposedly the entrance to this has been sealed in recent years. Haven't been there myself but I live in Davis. Thanks for all the info Butch."
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09/28/02 "The first piece of history Mac McGalliard tells about in his book is about Wild Woman Cave in the Arbuckle Mountains near Turner Falls. The big cave is located southwest of Turner Falls on the old A.J. Chapman place. The cave has three miles of passageways, a water falls, and a huge "snowbank" of calcite in it. This particular piece of local history Mac talked about in his Reporter's Notebook column of The Daily Ardmoreite on February 6, 1964. Mac interviewed a number of people to get to the bottom of who is this "wild woman". Turns out to be a young girl around 1920 named Ethel Hindman. Ethel Hindman was a dare devil of a lady back in the 20s and was the only one daring enough to go down that cave's vertical wall at the time in search of water. After she accomplished this feat, someone called her a "wild woman" and the name for the cave stuck ever since. She did find water at the bottom of the cave and told those on the surface where to drill the water well. These are some photos I found on the Net of Ethel Hindman. They are slow to download, so be patient. Whatever happened to Ethel Hindman? No one seems to know." www.rootsweb.com/~okmurray/Arbuckle_Mts/ethel_hindman.htm
Photos of Mac McGalliard's book
www.OklahomaHistory.net/ttphotos/report73a.jpg
www.OklahomaHistory.net/ttphotos/report73b.jpg
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06/29/02 "Hey Butch, I found your postings online while doing a search for Bitter Enders Cave (near Turner Falls by Davis, Oklahoma). I've attached a couple of pictures from 6-23-02. My friend Paul and I hiked back to the cave for a quick visit. It's been about 5 years since we've been there last and we felt like it was worth our while to go back and visit that wonderful cave. I hiked my digital camera back with me so I could get these shots. Man what an awesome cave. The oxygen was full of CO2 and we both got very light headed and started shaking all over. That was about the time we decided we better head back out for some clean air. After a 10 minute refresher (including some yoga breathing techniques), we headed back in for a second look. The second time around was a lot better. Expectations were set before entering the second time. Anyway, I thought that you might enjoy these shots. Take care."
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03/31/01 "I really enjoyed the comments about Bitter Enders. Evidently there are more entrances to the cave than were thought. While growing up in Davis, we tried to explore as many of the caves in the area as possible and I remember going through the two that your reader mentioned in his response but was unaware that they were also called Bitter Enders. One of the caves east of Turner Falls proved to be tragic for a couple of explorers in the late 50's early 60's as they became trapped in the cave when a torrential rain came and brought the water level up to where they became disoriented. I can remember radio announcements being made that if anyone was around who had experience with the cave please go to Turner Falls and help the emergency folks on site on how the cave was designed and where they might think the trapped people might be. As it turned out, they had gone deep enough into the cave that they were using diving equipment and had become wedged into one of the narrow passage ways and could not get out before their oxygen ran out. Keep up the good work - the information you provide is extremely interesting and brings back fond and bad memories as well."
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03/24/01 "Hi Butch, I noticed one of the emails this week referred to Bitter Enders Cave. I went in that cave New Years day of 1958. I remember it in a different location though. We left highway 77 just south of the Mountain with the Microwave towers just south of Turner Falls. Straight West about 5 miles where Honey Creek gets a lot of its water is from Bitter Enders Cave. Water comes out of the ground pretty forceful. There are two entrances to the cave. One is just above the stream and the other is farther up the mountain down a shaft like a dug well. Or at least that was the way I remembered it in 1958. I was with a guy named Jerry Robinson. I don't think we told anyone we were going up there. I can tell you that it was an experience. I agree there are a lot of things there that most people can't imagine."
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Link to Dennis Muncrief's 2001 article on Wild Woman Cave
www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~okmurray/stories/wild_woman_cave.htm
01/02/09 "Wild Woman cave is east of Nebo about 3 miles. Wagon Wheel Cave is south of the pool below turner falls about 1/4 mile and a climb up about 75 ft. It is a large opening about 7ft in almost a perfect circle, thus the name wagon wheel. Bitter Enders is a cave I don't know anything about, but.... the cave where all the water comes down Honey creek and over the falls is the one I spent a lot of time in. One of the descriptions a fella wrote about going down into mud and sliding down and down until you hit the water. It was ice cold and we had to use old small inner tubes that we blew up by mouth to float down to the room where the water went under the ledge and outside. You could see the outside light coming from under the water. It may be called Bitter Enders but I never knew the name of it. It is about 3 to 4 miles due West of the falls and the water comes out from under a large ledge. Opening is couple of hundred feed west of that. Straight down for at least 60 ft, then the steep mud slope into the water. The mud slope is about 50 to 60 ft long at about a 30 to 40 degree angle. Went back into that cave in late 60's after they built the freeway and a rock the size of a small house had come down from the roof. Probably due to all the dynamiting for the highway. Swore I'd never go into it again. Killed a trophy sized coon tail rattler with a rock and took him back and park service came to the house and skinned him and he was on display in the nature center for several years. It was lying at the entrance to the cave "Bitter Enders" and I almost got nailed by him." -Larry Ogwin
11/13/08 "While in college around 1969, three friends and I entered the Wild Woman Cave. I will only say it is in the Arbuckle Mountains because it is a fragile environment. As a child, I lived in El Paso (1954) with my Dad and we visited Carlsbad Caverns in New Mexico. The Wild Woman Cave (WWC) is not anywhere near as spectacular as Carlsbad, but it was an adventure one spring day for four guys from Ardmore. One of my three friends was a geology student at OU and he had the USGS map showing us where the WWC was.
As a dot on a small map, it was very difficult to find. We hiked several miles across the rocks of the Arbuckle terrain, which even as a young man was exhausting. We drank all our water on the way into the site and on the way out and at the end of a long day, we drank creek water. The first member of our team found a deep hole where we thought the cave entrance was and he entered it. It was straight down and could have been very dangerous had he entered the cavern from the top of a chamber. I watch as he went down a vertical shaft. At the moment he was almost out of sight, a second member found another entrance. It had a semi-secured entry placed there by the Ardmore Spelunkers Club (ASC). One of my teachers in Ardmore had mentioned his membership and adventures in the cave.
Removing some rocks, we entered an 18 inch hole passing first spiders, then past sleeping bats a few inches from our faces. We climbed down a wooden ladder placed there by the ASC. The tight hole delivered us into a larger main shaft covered by mud, running water, dampness, low temperatures and an occasional flying bat. Of the four of us with four flashlights, two flashlights went out immediately. I assume because of the dampness. The four of us descended a quarter mile on a slow decline, which included several tight spaces under rocks and through water. The lead friend had one of the flashlights and the rear friend had the other. Only very thin, agile and in excellent shape people should enter an unexplored cave. It was almost impossible to move because of the fragile stalactites and stalagmites. We took every precaution not to damage them. After encountering a partly flooded passage, we retreated to move up the cavern toward the entry and the first three friends actually missed our entry point. The last friend with one flashlight noticed the pile of rocks we had left in the middle of the shaft to show us the way out. Had he missed it I think we would still be in that cave. As we exited the cave we were covered with mud, sweat and cold cave water, so the warm spring sunlight felt very good.
I always wanted to take my boys to the Wild Woman Cave, but at my age I'm not sure I could make it. It is not a Carlsbad Cavern or an Oregon Cave which I visited in 1972 that could be commercialized. It is there for all time but not for all people. There is a good reason it is not commercialized. I hope one of the rock excavators doesn't destroy it like so much of the Arbuckle Mountains or Arbuckle Quarry Holes as it will someday be called." -Dan Mahoney
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11/20/08 "Butch, When someone brought up the subject about Wild Woman Cave near Turner Falls, it brought back fond memories of one of my good friends of many, many years ago when I was still living in Ardmore. We attended church together and he was a fellow principal at Lincoln Elementary School. He was V. S. Watson, a spelunker as a hobby, with two other men on the team, whose names I can't recall at the time. V.S. passed away many years ago but I'm sure some of your readers will remember him. They traveled all around the country exploring, charting and taking pictures of caves during the summer time. He spoke a good bit about Wild Woman Cave and they were deep within that cave more than once. He described it pretty much like one of your readers as muddy in areas and having to go through water at times to get to other parts. I also remember him saying that some of the passage ways were rather small to crawl through but once you got to the other side there would be large, beautiful rooms. Even at that time he didn't believe it would ever be very commercial because of the difficulty getting through from room to room. He said man could probably improve to approach and entrance but the big problem was inside. His impression was: that it was as attractive as some of the popular caves once inside but just not suited for passage to the public. I have no idea what may have happened to their charts and pictures since V. S. and his wife, Erma, had no children. Some of your readers may recall and know who the other men on the team were. Just a bit of information to add to what has already been said." -Edgar Wallace
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10/30/08 "If you walked the 2 or 3 miles up to the source of Honey Creek, you were at "Wild Woman Cave" entrance (or exit). There is at least one other entrance up above the spot where the spring comes out of the rocks. There are at least 2 more caves on Honey Creek and 2 more located to the south of the falls. "Outlaw Cave" is just above the falls on the north side of the creek, not much to it. "Sink Hole Cave" is located about 1/4 mile west above the falls, maybe 1/8 mile south of the creek in a ravine. It had a steel cable that ran several feet (at least 50-60 feet, maybe 100 feet or more?) down into the steep, nearly vertical entrance to the cave.
"Wagon Wheel Cave" is located about 1/3 mile south of the bath house at Turner Falls along the trail that leads up the canyon. It is located at least 100 feet up on the side of the steep, rocky hill on the east side of the creek bed and trail. It has one large room at the clearly visible entrance, a small, very narrow passage way back to a much smaller room and not much more.
"Crystal Cave" is located another 1/2 to 3/4 mile past Wagon Wheel and requires some easy rock climbing to reach. The entrance is well hidden in the trees and rocks, but can be easily found up along the same easterly side of the hill. It is at least 1/4 mile past the end of the trail leading up the canyon, but worth the hike.
There is at least one other cave located on the old Butterly Ranch, now part of Turner Falls Upper Campground that is worth mentioning. I think this one is called "Bitter Enders Cave" and may have another name that I don't recall. There was always some confusion and interchanging of the names of the caves around the park and surrounding area by some people (especially visitors from out of town), but these are the names most often used by all of the local old-timers in the area that lived their entire lives there. It has been many years since I explored it and the other caves at Turner Falls Park and the surrounding area, but at one time I had maps to locate and maps of the layout of each of these caves and all known names. Too bad I don't have those notes with GPS coordinates to share today. Good Luck, BE CAREFUL and happy spelunking!"
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10/30/08 "Back in the '60s growing up in Davis, I always heard that "Wild Woman Cave" was located on the Chapman ranch about two miles south of the towers up on top of the Mountains, and a few miles west of I-35. The only way to get on this paved road to this cave was off of Highway 77 going down the south side of the mountains. I heard that some people had gotten lost inside of this cave, and it had been boarded up to keep people out of it. Seems as though an OU geological team entered it before it was boarded up, and it was reported that Wild Woman Cave was probably larger in area than Carlsbad Caverns, but no one seemed to have the money to fix up this cave for public use. This story may or may not be true, but that is what I used to hear back then so long ago." -Scott Bumgarner, Sherman, TX
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03/17/08 "There are a number of caves in and around Turner Falls that we used to explore as well as one out west of Davis just to the southwest of Hennepin, Oklahoma that we called "Bitter Enters" as the temperature inside the cave was hotter than the outside and this was during the summer."
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07/19/07 "In your last newsletter someone asked where the water from Turner Falls originated. I think I can answer that. When I was in the Boy Scouts in Ardmore back in the fifties all the camping was done at Lake Murray. My friends and I always liked to camp in the Arbuckle Mountains. We did a lot of exploring there, especially in caves. One weekend we decided we wanted to find out where the water for the falls came from. We camped up above the falls and then followed the stream back from the falls. A few miles back from the falls (I don’t know how many, but it wasn’t a long hike) we came to a cave. The water was coming out of the cave. We were able to get into the cave and explore it. We went back into the cave as far as we could and finally got to a point where it was full of water. We returned several times and explored that cave and others close by. In dry seasons we could get further into the cave than we could in wet, rainy seasons. Someone had painted a name on the cave. It was called “Bitter Enders”. The guys who went with me most were Grady Nickolson, Marion Patton and Lawrence Stallcup. We had a lot of fun in those days exploring the mountains and caves." -Herb Linder hlinder007@att.net
www.oklahomahistory.net/ttphotos9a/BitterEndersCave.jpg
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07/19/07 "Butch, the headwaters for Turner falls originates in a cave SW of the falls a few miles. The water flows from an underground river out of the cave. I have been in this cave many times. The name of the cave is Bitter Enders. It is what we call a wet cave. Meaning it fills up when water table rises. Not a good place to take shelter from a rain storm." -Rome Ingle, Tulsa
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01/26/06 "Hey Cuz, When I was growing up in Davis it was said that there were two entrances to the Bitter Enders cave (as we knew it back then). The entrance that we were accustomed to using was the one just south of Hennipen. You turned left at the old Richard Morton home on the south side of U.S. 7 and drove for about a mile or so where you would get out and walk a 100 yards or so back to the East where you had to look closely to find the entrance to the cave. I remember that the cave was so hot that in the summer when you came out of the cave you could see your breath like when you would walk out of a warm place and into the cold. We could only get down about 50 feet or so because that was as far as our ropes would allow. We made several attempts to go deeper into the cave but never had enough rope and when we did, we would get to a point to where you had to be very small to squeeze into the hole to continue down." -Ralph in Korea
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05/12/05 "Hi Butch. What is the story with Bitter Enders Cave? Is it possible to still go into it? How do you get there. About ten years ago I believe some friends and I hiked up the creek from Turner falls park for about 3 miles where we came to the origin of the creek and right there was the cave. Went back a few weeks ago and could not find it."
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12/27/03 "Butch, about WAGON WHEEL CAVE at Turner Falls.... the one in the photo is known as CRYSTAL CAVE, located about 1/2 mile behind the current bathhouse. Wagon Wheel cave is the cave that is right next to the falls that is seen in all the photos. Outlaw cave is located on the same side, on top of the falls about 75 yards back. One of the most overlooked features in TURNER FALLS is the "Woman of the Rock" which can be seen from the castle looking up to the overlook. It is a profile of a woman's face. It used to be on the brochures listed as one of the attractions but later was dropped for some reason. Just thought I'd help clarify the Cave Names." -Bryan Pullen, Davis, Oklahoma, '32 year Turner Falls Veteran'
www.OklahomaHistory.net/ttphotos3b/CrystalCave.jpg
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12/27/03 "Will attempt to clear up misconception about the Wagon Wheel, Crystal Cave, and the cave to the immediate upper right of the Falls. Of course, I stand to be corrected re: the Wagon Wheel, but those who described it as about 200 yards up the canyon floor & high up the wall to the left, or northeast, and difficult to enter, is, as I too remember. A very shallow cave... Crystal cave is another couple of hundred yards east, and it too is on the left, or east side of the canyon but, only slightly elevated above the canyon floor with a large rock almost covering the entrance. Hope this clarifies to some degree, as I journeyed to these caves many times as a teenager. There is rumored to be another much larger cave several miles up the source of Honey creek. At one time is was called Bitter Enders cave. Don't know the source of the name."
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12/20/03 "Hi Butch. I have been in the cave you pictured as "Wagon Wheel Cave...Turner Falls" many times as a kid. in the late 30's. It was hard to get into. the cave from the trail below. as the wall below the cave was slick rock. We usually found a forked limb to act as a ladder and climb into the cave. I don't know if it went very far into the hill as the opening closed down very quickly We had no desire to explore and didn't try to crawl into the small opening at the back of the cave mouth." -Bill Uhles
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12/20/03 "Hello Butch and T&T. The Wagon Wheel Cave is indeed at Turner Falls. The canyon that goes south and a little east from the Falls is where the cave is located. As I remember, it is about 1/2 mile walking distance and it is on the east side of the canyon. It is very a very steep climb and you almost have to have a ladder to get in the cave. The cave is only about 50 to 60 feet deep. When I was going to High School in Davis in the early 50's my best friend and schoolmate, Thomas Hyden and I explored all of the area around Turner Falls, most of it back to the west of the Falls. Thanks." -Joe Black
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12/20/03 "In the mid 1940's, some friends and I visited the Wagon Wheel Cave. We went down to Turner Falls and followed a trail going south down the canyon. I remember it as being no more than 200 yards from the falls area. The cave is located to the left (east) and up high on a rock face cliff. It is an easy climb to the cliff but you need some help when you reach the cliff. Someone had placed a tree trunk from the top of the incline to the cave. We were able to climb up the trunk and enter the cave. It was just a round hole in the face of the cliff that you could stand upright in. It was not very deep or impressive in any other way." -Gene Reed
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12/13/03 "This is an email I received where I asked about Wagon Wheel Cave: "Dear Butch, I found an old 1958 report on Wagon Wheel Cave, it said that the cave is one and a half mile north of Brownville, Oklahoma and that the cave is filled with trash, including an old wagon wheel. The cave is about 100 feet long. If you go to the cave take a trash bag with you, it sounds like it could use a clean up." -Bill Torode, NSS library" www.caves.org/
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09/13/03 "The cave at honey creek is often referred to as Bitter Enders and is on Chapman ranch. Supposedly the entrance to this has been sealed in recent years. Haven't been there myself but I live in Davis. Thanks for all the info Butch."
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09/28/02 "The first piece of history Mac McGalliard tells about in his book is about Wild Woman Cave in the Arbuckle Mountains near Turner Falls. The big cave is located southwest of Turner Falls on the old A.J. Chapman place. The cave has three miles of passageways, a water falls, and a huge "snowbank" of calcite in it. This particular piece of local history Mac talked about in his Reporter's Notebook column of The Daily Ardmoreite on February 6, 1964. Mac interviewed a number of people to get to the bottom of who is this "wild woman". Turns out to be a young girl around 1920 named Ethel Hindman. Ethel Hindman was a dare devil of a lady back in the 20s and was the only one daring enough to go down that cave's vertical wall at the time in search of water. After she accomplished this feat, someone called her a "wild woman" and the name for the cave stuck ever since. She did find water at the bottom of the cave and told those on the surface where to drill the water well. These are some photos I found on the Net of Ethel Hindman. They are slow to download, so be patient. Whatever happened to Ethel Hindman? No one seems to know." www.rootsweb.com/~okmurray/Arbuckle_Mts/ethel_hindman.htm
Photos of Mac McGalliard's book
www.OklahomaHistory.net/ttphotos/report73a.jpg
www.OklahomaHistory.net/ttphotos/report73b.jpg
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06/29/02 "Hey Butch, I found your postings online while doing a search for Bitter Enders Cave (near Turner Falls by Davis, Oklahoma). I've attached a couple of pictures from 6-23-02. My friend Paul and I hiked back to the cave for a quick visit. It's been about 5 years since we've been there last and we felt like it was worth our while to go back and visit that wonderful cave. I hiked my digital camera back with me so I could get these shots. Man what an awesome cave. The oxygen was full of CO2 and we both got very light headed and started shaking all over. That was about the time we decided we better head back out for some clean air. After a 10 minute refresher (including some yoga breathing techniques), we headed back in for a second look. The second time around was a lot better. Expectations were set before entering the second time. Anyway, I thought that you might enjoy these shots. Take care."
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03/31/01 "I really enjoyed the comments about Bitter Enders. Evidently there are more entrances to the cave than were thought. While growing up in Davis, we tried to explore as many of the caves in the area as possible and I remember going through the two that your reader mentioned in his response but was unaware that they were also called Bitter Enders. One of the caves east of Turner Falls proved to be tragic for a couple of explorers in the late 50's early 60's as they became trapped in the cave when a torrential rain came and brought the water level up to where they became disoriented. I can remember radio announcements being made that if anyone was around who had experience with the cave please go to Turner Falls and help the emergency folks on site on how the cave was designed and where they might think the trapped people might be. As it turned out, they had gone deep enough into the cave that they were using diving equipment and had become wedged into one of the narrow passage ways and could not get out before their oxygen ran out. Keep up the good work - the information you provide is extremely interesting and brings back fond and bad memories as well."
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03/24/01 "Hi Butch, I noticed one of the emails this week referred to Bitter Enders Cave. I went in that cave New Years day of 1958. I remember it in a different location though. We left highway 77 just south of the Mountain with the Microwave towers just south of Turner Falls. Straight West about 5 miles where Honey Creek gets a lot of its water is from Bitter Enders Cave. Water comes out of the ground pretty forceful. There are two entrances to the cave. One is just above the stream and the other is farther up the mountain down a shaft like a dug well. Or at least that was the way I remembered it in 1958. I was with a guy named Jerry Robinson. I don't think we told anyone we were going up there. I can tell you that it was an experience. I agree there are a lot of things there that most people can't imagine."
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Link to Dennis Muncrief's 2001 article on Wild Woman Cave
www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~okmurray/stories/wild_woman_cave.htm
